Chien is Bitter and Old, Discussion #349253425803482503948250938405
So Gabe and I were talking (more like Gabe listens to me while I foam at the mouth), and I was just thinking that
do people even realize that the Tim Drake from Batman: TAS (Gotham Knights) is completely different from the Tim Drake in comics? That smiley, somersaulting, giggling, doe eyed tiny kid in B:TAS is not the same Tim Drake as the comic one. It’s like the difference between Broody McBroodyPants Teen Titans Go! Dick and comic Dick, and Bart Allen from Smallville with comic Bart Allen. They share names and certain pieces of backstory and other details, but the end product is a brand new character. Except this time it doesn’t have the seal of “Deal With It” stamped onto it by DC like when we read a character acting completely different one issue after the next due to rotating staff.
You know, like when Willingham’s Tim made all Tim fans cry tears of blood for months. And then vomit when Willingham wrote a response to fan outcry that was even worse than the Robin series he was writing. THOSE WERE VERY DARK DAYS. No, characters like Tim Drake from B:TAS and Tim Drake from the comics are not meant to be the same— so they get passes for being different. They shouldn’t be confused for each other either.
I’m asking because a lot of times I see fandom depict Tim Drake a lot more like that kid than the… overstressed, workaholic, paranoid freak that Tim actually is.
I’m obviously not the authority to the End All Be All Characterization of Every DC Character Forever and Ever, but man when even longterm readers that are not involved in fandom (so they are not familiar with fan characterization) such as my sister glance at pieces of the fandom and think, “What the fuck is this shit I’m looking at? Who the fuck is this?”
it means someone is doing something wrong.
This is all bringing back bad memories from when I was part of the Shaman King fandom— that’s probably just adding to my wtf-ing at stuff.
in which chien says a lot of words on a subject i care aboutI know I’ve posted this picture before but it’s my favorite single panel of the three that I have saved. I just have something quick to jot down before I go to bed, because I’ve seen some of my things reblogged before with this kind of comment added or read discussions where said comment is thrown in.
I get confused when I see people posting, “HEY YOU GUYS YOU’RE FORGETTING CASSIE! CASSIE WAS THERE FROM THE START!” when talking about the YJ trio. Yanno, such as on DC Confessions where there’s a confession that laments the loss of the well-balanced friendship between Bart, Tim, and Kon. I think I may have seen one of those comments pop up on one of my drawings before too? I can’t remember.
The reason why I get confused is that Cassie was not there from the start, so I have no idea why people are getting so upset that she’s not included. If anything, people should howl about how Greta is not included if they want to pick at details about which female was there in the very beginning of the series as far as Young Justice is concerned. To be even more specific, Young Justice, the title of the trio, was coined at the end of World Without Grown-ups. So if you really want to be even more picky over who is being left out that is essential to YJ creation mythos, then you should be throwing tantrums over how “BILLY BATSON WAS THERE TOO!!!!! DON’T FORGET HIM!” since he was the other teen hero featured prominently in the storyline that led to the development of Young Justice trio. Or you could go with the baddie and create banners about Bedlam being there first.
The other reason why people freaking out over Cassie being apparently forgotten annoys me is that… honestly, guys, the boys were not that great to the girls as a whole. Cassie was not a super important character from the start because of that. Greta was in her own way, because her general story arch is the background plot for YJ. Despite that, it didn’t seem like they were super bestest closest awesomest friendsies forever with just the four of them though. Cissie may have contributed more than Cassie did in the beginning too, but despite that it didn’t feel like Cissie was being put on the same level as the boys when it came to friendship. It did suck that the boys did not treat the girls fairly in the beginning, but for storytelling purposes it was somewhat reasonable to characterize the preteens and teens as who they were during that uncomfortable stage of their lives. They were all in different stages of maturity and becoming adults in different ways. I liked that the girls banded together cohesively like the boys did to support each other early on because the other gender was being poopy-headed at the moment, as a result. It was great having a competent, kick butt, girl-power team. It was a realistic depiction of how developing preteens and teens start splitting off into same-sex groups around the time pubery onsets because of confused feelings between the kids.
Was Cassie really so integral and important when the boys were basically pushing the girls and specifically her away in various ways? Is she really deserving of people claiming that she was there from the start and is being woefully forgotten as an integral, important, must-be-named aspect to the original trio despite characters like Billy and Greta being much more important? I question if there ever was such a thing as a YJ quartet that was exclusively about Cassie, Bart, Tim, and Kon. Maybe it felt that way if you only ever read Teen Titan just because they were the four who graduated to the bigger leagues, but if you did how can you say that she was there from the real beginning and start? Once again, if you want to go back to the real, even further back beginnings, Bart met Tim before Kon did, Bart met Kon before Tim did. Sure, they all knew about each other— they just hadn’t met until then. Who didn’t know about Robin and Superboy, at the very least, in the DCU?
While I admit my bias as someone who favors Bart, I think it’s more reasonable to say that it sucks that Bart has been neatly clipped out of the YJ trio to be reduced into the TT duo than it is to say that Cassie has been maliciously plucked out of the YJ mythos and that she absolutely must be mentioned as part of the YJ core. YJ did eventually move beyond the boys, which is why it was able to stand on its own when Bart and Tim left with Cissie— but once again, since we’re discussing the beginning then it was all about the boys back then because they were feeling a bit greedy and possessive of their trio.
When TT came out and Bart said that Cassie was the first girl he liked/girl who made him like girls everyone called bullshit because it wasn’t true or even believable. Bart had never shown any interest in Cassie prior to that point, for instance. Many relationships were developed in YJ, but Cassie’s strongest relationships were ultimately with Cissie, the other girls, and Kon. Bart was close with Cissie and palsies with Greta— he interacted with Cassie far less. Initially, Kon didn’t give Cassie the time of day because he couldn’t take his eyes off Cissie, which is why Cissie would try to redirect his attention on her onto Cassie. Tim was busy working and showed respect for Cissie and fascination with Greta, but he wasn’t all over Cassie either. To me, YJ felt like Cassie’s strongest relationships were always with the girls and never the boys except for much later when Kon’s relationships were getting overly complicated and they decided to smoosh him back together with Cassie. Even though he was busy tangoing with a different girl in his own comic and showing signs of affection for Cass that were developed further later. Even if some of the other girls branched out and bonded with the boys— such as Anita and Lobo— I do not think Cassie was like an octopus with deep connections with the three main boys that make her important enough to warrant people crying out against the injustice of leaving her out when discussing the original YJ core.
I realize that slash/yaoi fans have a tendency to encourage bizarre misogyny against female characters for the sake of making everything gay. While that may be the case for some as to why when they think of YJ they just think of the boys club, I still do not think that Cassie was more special than any of the other girl characters and that she has no right to be brandished as the one who was there from the beginning regardless of her gender. Why did she lead YJ? She won a vote, because she was popular as a character. I was honestly curious as to how Cassie could lead YJ, because before that she didn’t display that many leadership characteristics in my eyes. It did help her develop a lot as a character when she suddenly gained a lot of responsibilities— and it was great to see so much growth, considering how when she originally started she was so starstruck with Kon that she was making mistakes in battle. I liked that she moved on beyond her fangirlish obsession with Kon (AHEM, her ROOM) and I was actually disappointed when they got together. I think it would have been more interesting if she had moved on forever, in fact. Then maybe Kon would learn a lesson in some ways too.
Still, she didn’t become leader because she was more competent than the other characters (she wasn’t) or had deep relations with the everyone (only with some of them)— she won because she was popular. It was great too that a female teen hero one, and great things came from it. I just want to point out that it wasn’t necessarily because she actually was best for the job. Bart and Tim gathered a significant number of votes and they weren’t even on the team— and as we all know, Bart as leader during that time of his development? Bad idea.
So, Tumblr. I’m waiting. Where are the rants about how Greta, Billy Batson, and Bart have been tragically erased from their rightful pedestals of being there from the beginning and essential to the creation and initial development of Young Justice? I certainly have seen a few speckled here and there, but not as much as I see about Cassie being horrifically left out. There’s more support to those kind of arguments about those three, in my point of view, than that of Cassie being far more important than those three and rightfully deserving to be mentioned everytime someone discusses the beginnings of YJ. Then again, everyone reads YJ with a different perspective— such as how I didn’t see an eternal, tender, romantic love between Tim and Kon developing in YJ and how I saw Ray/Kon as a more likely relationship.
and then I had a lot of feelings I couldn’t put into words so I just crawled into the long boxes and wept silently.
(Young Justice issue #4)
Man I don’t know how to use the reblog options, but omg that cover :,3 When they were all babies. <3 I really wish more of the girls could have graduated into the big leagues.
I know I’ve posted this picture before but it’s my favorite single panel of the three that I have saved. I just have something quick to jot down before I go to bed, because I’ve seen some of my things reblogged before with this kind of comment added or read discussions where said comment is thrown in.
I get confused when I see people posting, “HEY YOU GUYS YOU’RE FORGETTING CASSIE! CASSIE WAS THERE FROM THE START!” when talking about the YJ trio. Yanno, such as on DC Confessions where there’s a confession that laments the loss of the well-balanced friendship between Bart, Tim, and Kon. I think I may have seen one of those comments pop up on one of my drawings before too? I can’t remember.
The reason why I get confused is that Cassie was not there from the start, so I have no idea why people are getting so upset that she’s not included. If anything, people should howl about how Greta is not included if they want to pick at details about which female was there in the very beginning of the series as far as Young Justice is concerned. To be even more specific, Young Justice, the title of the trio, was coined at the end of World Without Grown-ups. So if you really want to be even more picky over who is being left out that is essential to YJ creation mythos, then you should be throwing tantrums over how “BILLY BATSON WAS THERE TOO!!!!! DON’T FORGET HIM!” since he was the other teen hero featured prominently in the storyline that led to the development of Young Justice trio. Or you could go with the baddie and create banners about Bedlam being there first.
The other reason why people freaking out over Cassie being apparently forgotten annoys me is that… honestly, guys, the boys were not that great to the girls as a whole. Cassie was not a super important character from the start because of that. Greta was in her own way, because her general story arch is the background plot for YJ. Despite that, it didn’t seem like they were super bestest closest awesomest friendsies forever with just the four of them though. Cissie may have contributed more than Cassie did in the beginning too, but despite that it didn’t feel like Cissie was being put on the same level as the boys when it came to friendship. It did suck that the boys did not treat the girls fairly in the beginning, but for storytelling purposes it was somewhat reasonable to characterize the preteens and teens as who they were during that uncomfortable stage of their lives. They were all in different stages of maturity and becoming adults in different ways. I liked that the girls banded together cohesively like the boys did to support each other early on because the other gender was being poopy-headed at the moment, as a result. It was great having a competent, kick butt, girl-power team. It was a realistic depiction of how developing preteens and teens start splitting off into same-sex groups around the time pubery onsets because of confused feelings between the kids.
Was Cassie really so integral and important when the boys were basically pushing the girls and specifically her away in various ways? Is she really deserving of people claiming that she was there from the start and is being woefully forgotten as an integral, important, must-be-named aspect to the original trio despite characters like Billy and Greta being much more important? I question if there ever was such a thing as a YJ quartet that was exclusively about Cassie, Bart, Tim, and Kon. Maybe it felt that way if you only ever read Teen Titan just because they were the four who graduated to the bigger leagues, but if you did how can you say that she was there from the real beginning and start? Once again, if you want to go back to the real, even further back beginnings, Bart met Tim before Kon did, Bart met Kon before Tim did. Sure, they all knew about each other— they just hadn’t met until then. Who didn’t know about Robin and Superboy, at the very least, in the DCU?
While I admit my bias as someone who favors Bart, I think it’s more reasonable to say that it sucks that Bart has been neatly clipped out of the YJ trio to be reduced into the TT duo than it is to say that Cassie has been maliciously plucked out of the YJ mythos and that she absolutely must be mentioned as part of the YJ core. YJ did eventually move beyond the boys, which is why it was able to stand on its own when Bart and Tim left with Cissie— but once again, since we’re discussing the beginning then it was all about the boys back then because they were feeling a bit greedy and possessive of their trio.
When TT came out and Bart said that Cassie was the first girl he liked/girl who made him like girls everyone called bullshit because it wasn’t true or even believable. Bart had never shown any interest in Cassie prior to that point, for instance. Many relationships were developed in YJ, but Cassie’s strongest relationships were ultimately with Cissie, the other girls, and Kon. Bart was close with Cissie and palsies with Greta— he interacted with Cassie far less. Initially, Kon didn’t give Cassie the time of day because he couldn’t take his eyes off Cissie, which is why Cissie would try to redirect his attention on her onto Cassie. Tim was busy working and showed respect for Cissie and fascination with Greta, but he wasn’t all over Cassie either. To me, YJ felt like Cassie’s strongest relationships were always with the girls and never the boys except for much later when Kon’s relationships were getting overly complicated and they decided to smoosh him back together with Cassie. Even though he was busy tangoing with a different girl in his own comic and showing signs of affection for Cass that were developed further later. Even if some of the other girls branched out and bonded with the boys— such as Anita and Lobo— I do not think Cassie was like an octopus with deep connections with the three main boys that make her important enough to warrant people crying out against the injustice of leaving her out when discussing the original YJ core.
I realize that slash/yaoi fans have a tendency to encourage bizarre misogyny against female characters for the sake of making everything gay. While that may be the case for some as to why when they think of YJ they just think of the boys club, I still do not think that Cassie was more special than any of the other girl characters and that she has no right to be brandished as the one who was there from the beginning regardless of her gender. Why did she lead YJ? She won a vote, because she was popular as a character. I was honestly curious as to how Cassie could lead YJ, because before that she didn’t display that many leadership characteristics in my eyes. It did help her develop a lot as a character when she suddenly gained a lot of responsibilities— and it was great to see so much growth, considering how when she originally started she was so starstruck with Kon that she was making mistakes in battle. I liked that she moved on beyond her fangirlish obsession with Kon (AHEM, her ROOM) and I was actually disappointed when they got together. I think it would have been more interesting if she had moved on forever, in fact. Then maybe Kon would learn a lesson in some ways too.
Still, she didn’t become leader because she was more competent than the other characters (she wasn’t) or had deep relations with the everyone (only with some of them)— she won because she was popular. It was great too that a female teen hero one, and great things came from it. I just want to point out that it wasn’t necessarily because she actually was best for the job. Bart and Tim gathered a significant number of votes and they weren’t even on the team— and as we all know, Bart as leader during that time of his development? Bad idea.
So, Tumblr. I’m waiting. Where are the rants about how Greta, Billy Batson, and Bart have been tragically erased from their rightful pedestals of being there from the beginning and essential to the creation and initial development of Young Justice? I certainly have seen a few speckled here and there, but not as much as I see about Cassie being horrifically left out. There’s more support to those kind of arguments about those three, in my point of view, than that of Cassie being far more important than those three and rightfully deserving to be mentioned everytime someone discusses the beginnings of YJ. Then again, everyone reads YJ with a different perspective— such as how I didn’t see an eternal, tender, romantic love between Tim and Kon developing in YJ and how I saw Ray/Kon as a more likely relationship.
“Got NRG?” by Nisshe!
Since these are no longer available to purchase on her site, I hope it’ll be okay to post up some scans of them. I used to buy her doujinshi all the time— I’ve forgotten to buy them for a while though. I have about five more that I never got around to scanning. Hmmm.
She was really nice for selling “Got NRG?” to me in… 2004? I ordered the ordering period after she had retired it, and asked if she had any left since I really wanted to collect the doujin with Bart on a glossy cover. : ) Luckily she did! Yay!
Remember When Making LJ Icons Was Da Thing?
I made so many! Here are a bunch from way back when. Man, the trends with making icons really changed over time too.
Also, this last one is not by me but some guy on SomethingAwful and it’s MAGICAL.
Rated Arr
Another blast from the past. In high school, I started a LJ comm dedicated to drawing requests from people who watched it. It was called “Rated Arr” and was a “webcomic” (HAHAHA no). Here are some of the requests.
Supergirl-boy. Bart thinks everything Kon does is cool. Tim hates life.
30th century socializing! Brainy and Lyle = <3
Man, Bart was so tiny during his YJ days. Kon is huge in comparison since he was… what, 5’10”? Bart was 5’1”, 110lbs, Tim was 5’1”, 115lbs (though in later, updated profile pages he would grow quite a bit and Bart would stay the same height up until TT— where he grows ONE INCH go Bart go keep growing), and Kon was 5’7”, 130lbs. Man, dude was underweight. Kon also grows a lot too, but I don’t remember where the later profile pages are.
Cassie was the same height as Tim and Bart in the beginning but twenty pounds lighter than Bart somehow. Greta was the shortest— 4’8”. Probably because she was “killed” so young? Cissie was 5’7”, the same height as Kon, yet 107lbs. Must have Mama Arrowette making her diet. I thought it made a lot of sense that Kon was gaga for Cissie in the beginning too. I liked Cissie being too cool for him— very cute.
Dick was a big creep in Rated Arr for some reason. Poor Wally.
Intense Boostle Jenga. One of my LJ friends is still using this as her default. Aw. :3
Bart being so small he can hide under Wally’s coat.
Wally’s nightmares are about Bart wreaking havoc.
Kon watching Tim sleep.
Dick showing Tim his secret to nookie.
Kon practicing asking Bart out for a date by talking to cows. Bart shows up and is shocked.
Kon, the flamboyant vampire, and Bart, the easy victim. (This was based off of a fic, in fact.)
Unrelated, but similar.
I think we were having a vampire craze on LJ at the time— this was before epic fic Vampyres, though. Also, man, you know something is old when I’m still writing my capital E’s as proper E’s and not just be “e’s.”
Kyle taking Hal and Ollie to Neverland.
Cass is popular.
Kon is such an egomaniac that the only person who is sexy enough for him is himself.
From that one comic panel where you can see the Elastic Lad’s action figure’s arm is super long.
OH SNAP I FOUND SOMETHING TRULY ANCIENT. EMBARRASSINGLY ANCIENT. :,D Judging from the style, it’s from around 2004-2005. I’m pretty sure I’ve never posted this anywhere before because I just found the original file in its scan size sitting around in some old drawing folders. You can really see my favoritism at this point because Tim is completely put in the background and he gets one line.
I found more and I’m separating them because these next few ones are even older than the other post. They’re from my freshman year of college, and I just finished my junior year. I don’t know why Bart is trying to hit someone with his skateboard.
Less hate more cute.
Oh yeah, I can draw. I thought of this when I drew the Bart one too. I have one more idea for Kon, and then I’ll move on to the other requests.
Remember this Robin from that one movie where the suits had sculpted on nipples too?
glasmond asked: OKAY I WILL INVADE YOUR ASKBOX!
Uuuuuuhm let’s see!!
I LOVE THAT YOU DRAW SO MANY CUTE BARTS hrhrhrhrhr! He’s my favorite baby (;v;);. Would you draw some more random pictures of the boy? Maybe together with Tim and Kon? Going to a .. uhm… theme park. YES! Six flags! Hahah <3 Meeting the superheroes 8D
That would be awesome!
Hahaha I think this may be one of my favorite drawings of Bart from recent memory. I’ll do the other two later, still painting dolls while drawing while waiting for things to dry. :) Bart is laughing his face red in this drawing.
Oh! Saw this lovely, emotional piece and remembered a not as awesome cutesy doodle I did for a request a few years ago. Figured I might as well post the whole set of these LJ “interest meme” doodles while I’m at it. I get sad when this Tumblr isn’t updated with enough art.
1.) Squishy Robin hugs (tsun tsun~)
2.) Ickle Supes and Bats :,3
3.) Kon and Tim taking Bart shopping so that they can give him The Talk.
4.) Kon sleepfloating and kissing a pillow.
5.) Suddenly, Nightcrawler’s butt.
6.) Gar and Bart
7.) Supes and Bats as CATS.
8.) A moe moe pretty Tim listening to a mix tape.
effuchu answered: A PAGE OF BARTS DOING BART THINGS. WBBUBUBU.
AN EXCUSE TO EXERCISE MY FAVORITISM SOME MORE AND DRAW TONS OF BART IN EXPLOITATIVE POSES? OKAY SURE. Yesss soccer socks on Bart. :D
Also hahaha, nice meeting you too. :) It’s been fun, and thanks for following me!
mightyprogressive answered: intimate (but pg-13 ish) Bart/Tim
Maybe not as sexy as imagined, but I prefer cute to sexy. :,D
Bart: “When’d you get so big? (So unfair!)”
Tim: “Are we still training? (Don’t pout at me!)”
